An all-out establishment war on Corbynism didn’t quite manage it. Starmer’s purge of Corbynites from the Labour Party didn’t either. But in the end, the Corbyn left might succeed in destroying itself.
What stops Corbyn and the 4 combining with the Greens? What policies are contradictory? Perhaps the Greens fear the media/vested interest attack that would follow? I’d like to see a one election only combined list of LibDem, Labour left and Green candidates stand on a manifesto of PR then call another election. The planet requires this.
I find it very difficult to say a negative word about Jeremy Corbyn because I genuinely believe he is one of the best of men. And because we did have that time of hope when the country could have become his “ family” and the world might have gone another way. But reluctantly I have to agree with you.
I suppose I'm that middle class white woman socialist, ex teacher and now too old at 81 to do much about anything. Much less go every few weeks to argumentative meetings in draughty halls and talk to the converted.
But I wasn't always that, being born into war in a city that was “ Coventrated,”whose father served five years in the army and then five trying to find work, whose mother sold her wedding ring to feed us and worked all her life. Jeremy's way was very clearly the right one to me: it still is. Look after the weak, the elderly and vulnerable, nourish and nurture the children, educate across the board and pay those who work not only fairly but well enough to have a good life. Seek peace, not war and embrace the world regardless of colour or creed. It makes sense .
Jeremy was out there, a great and passionate and courageous orator with a message of compassion and hope. He drew the crowds and the followers and until another such comes forward there will be vaguely individualised left wing stagnation in enclaves, but no party to create fruitful Opposition, I don't think I will see it.
Labour share of the vote went up 1.6% but total number of votes as down about 600,000. Corbyn’s defeat was disastrous because he lost and because of who he lost to. Considering Labour’s Brexit policy was dogshit (whether you were a remainer or a leaver) he actually did pretty well. Brexit Britain is broken, Corbyn is broken. An alternative Brexit policy would have see him elected but the might of vested interest and the media would have slaughtered Labour post Covid, especially as about 100,000 more old people would have survived it.
Why are you pretending seat numbers mean anything in terms of % of people supporting? 2024 election had the biggest disparity between votes and seats in UK history.
I think the idea party is itself one of our biggest problems - the whip and party discipline is now so powerfully used that thinking is stifled (it’s pretty much democratic centralism).
We need a organisation that coordinates, connects and facilitates. It can be affiliated to by all left of centre groups but it should promote independents in parliament - independent in parliament can sometimes hold the balance of power and can freely vote as their consciences dictate - constitutionally they are supposed to represent their constituents not to be part hacks. In the unwritten constitution we have the party is now so self aggrandised as to put our democracy at risk - especially when it has been captured by corporate lobbyists.
Disclosure - I am a non-party member of compass for pragmatic tactical reasons but it is wedded to the notion of party and at best wants progressive parties to embrace cross party collaboration. PR would be a step forwards but I think of it as necessary but not sufficient -in any case there are many examples of PR becoming dysfunctional (Isreal a prime example).
I wrote about this some time ago, a lot of it still applies
We already have the Green Party - I’m going to keep campaigning for them while yet another (this time it’ll be different!) left party is founded and then fizzles out.
Meanwhile, Reform UK are level or ahead in the polls and for what reason? Does anyone know their policies? Would they be ahead if Farage wasn't their leader?
Even if the left comes together and somehow builds a grassroots movement, it still needs a figurehead which will galvanise the general public.
Only a new party will succeed. It's not, as said, rocket science. It does not either, preclude local campaigns/forums.
This is part if what a national party does. I remember holding policy forum and, yes, the dreaded focus group. But to begin is hard, everything you undertake has recruitment leading to fund raising as an aim.
I have been involved with some communication with Collective through the Social Justice Party. It can work on a local level and on campaigns for issues directly parliamentary. They often combine. Obviously agreement with other socialist parties like George G's Workers party and even the Greens has to be attempted.
There has to be a party that gives people a real choice. Yes of course work with other parties as said, so that in a way is the 'movement' JC and others seek. But 'Independent' alone has drawbacks. Unfortunately the voting masses want to see 'leadership' of a party. Its just the culture of politics, and trying to force change on that is something we just have not time for.
The project is still very much a work in progress so please 'get involved' we all need you.
Thabk you for putting into words some of the questions and feelings (frustrations) I have been pondering over for the past few months. I agree with the assessment that the politics of indipendents risk morphing into the politics of individualism. I do see the value of initiatives like People's Forums and citizens' asssemblies, but I do have questions as to the degree of which the focus on narrowly defined local constituencies helps building power from the bottom up vs disperses the energy that had already been built during campaigns that involved volunteers from all part of the country. The truth is there isn't a scarcity of local campaigns to get involved in (from BDS lobbying of local authorities, to protecting local hospitals/community centres to volunteer in food banks). What we miss is a way to connect these efforts both with each others and with a clear political agenda - something a 'party' would be perfect for. I'm still in touch with the indipendent campaigns I got involved in during the general elections (mainly Jeremy's and Faiza Shaheen's ones) but I am quite perplexed at the rhetorical celebration of 'local' politics as synonym with bottom-up people's power (the two are not the same thing) and the way in which the words 'a new party' have almost become an anathema on the left.
Have your views evolved in more recent months? What's your take on the Novara debates on the topic, more recently with Polanski and James Schneider? Would love to read further from you.
What stops Corbyn and the 4 combining with the Greens? What policies are contradictory? Perhaps the Greens fear the media/vested interest attack that would follow? I’d like to see a one election only combined list of LibDem, Labour left and Green candidates stand on a manifesto of PR then call another election. The planet requires this.
I find it very difficult to say a negative word about Jeremy Corbyn because I genuinely believe he is one of the best of men. And because we did have that time of hope when the country could have become his “ family” and the world might have gone another way. But reluctantly I have to agree with you.
I suppose I'm that middle class white woman socialist, ex teacher and now too old at 81 to do much about anything. Much less go every few weeks to argumentative meetings in draughty halls and talk to the converted.
But I wasn't always that, being born into war in a city that was “ Coventrated,”whose father served five years in the army and then five trying to find work, whose mother sold her wedding ring to feed us and worked all her life. Jeremy's way was very clearly the right one to me: it still is. Look after the weak, the elderly and vulnerable, nourish and nurture the children, educate across the board and pay those who work not only fairly but well enough to have a good life. Seek peace, not war and embrace the world regardless of colour or creed. It makes sense .
Jeremy was out there, a great and passionate and courageous orator with a message of compassion and hope. He drew the crowds and the followers and until another such comes forward there will be vaguely individualised left wing stagnation in enclaves, but no party to create fruitful Opposition, I don't think I will see it.
I agree with you wholeheartedly Diane.
Labour share of the vote went up 1.6% but total number of votes as down about 600,000. Corbyn’s defeat was disastrous because he lost and because of who he lost to. Considering Labour’s Brexit policy was dogshit (whether you were a remainer or a leaver) he actually did pretty well. Brexit Britain is broken, Corbyn is broken. An alternative Brexit policy would have see him elected but the might of vested interest and the media would have slaughtered Labour post Covid, especially as about 100,000 more old people would have survived it.
Starmer’s ‘shallow’ support → 158 seat majority for Labour
Corbyn’s ‘deep’ support → 80 seat majority for Boris and Conservatives
Let’s blame Rupert Murdoch and FPTP and form a new party to split the vote….
Why are you pretending seat numbers mean anything in terms of % of people supporting? 2024 election had the biggest disparity between votes and seats in UK history.
I think the idea party is itself one of our biggest problems - the whip and party discipline is now so powerfully used that thinking is stifled (it’s pretty much democratic centralism).
We need a organisation that coordinates, connects and facilitates. It can be affiliated to by all left of centre groups but it should promote independents in parliament - independent in parliament can sometimes hold the balance of power and can freely vote as their consciences dictate - constitutionally they are supposed to represent their constituents not to be part hacks. In the unwritten constitution we have the party is now so self aggrandised as to put our democracy at risk - especially when it has been captured by corporate lobbyists.
Disclosure - I am a non-party member of compass for pragmatic tactical reasons but it is wedded to the notion of party and at best wants progressive parties to embrace cross party collaboration. PR would be a step forwards but I think of it as necessary but not sufficient -in any case there are many examples of PR becoming dysfunctional (Isreal a prime example).
I wrote about this some time ago, a lot of it still applies
https://brianfishhope.com/preface
For my thoughts in organisation see
https://brianfishhope.com/tactics/organisation
The contact me on the site is off - I just got bot generated junk
We already have the Green Party - I’m going to keep campaigning for them while yet another (this time it’ll be different!) left party is founded and then fizzles out.
Meanwhile, Reform UK are level or ahead in the polls and for what reason? Does anyone know their policies? Would they be ahead if Farage wasn't their leader?
Even if the left comes together and somehow builds a grassroots movement, it still needs a figurehead which will galvanise the general public.
The left are not sliding into political irrelevance.
The left have been silenced.
This will have only one result….. eventually there will be revolution.
Only a new party will succeed. It's not, as said, rocket science. It does not either, preclude local campaigns/forums.
This is part if what a national party does. I remember holding policy forum and, yes, the dreaded focus group. But to begin is hard, everything you undertake has recruitment leading to fund raising as an aim.
I have been involved with some communication with Collective through the Social Justice Party. It can work on a local level and on campaigns for issues directly parliamentary. They often combine. Obviously agreement with other socialist parties like George G's Workers party and even the Greens has to be attempted.
There has to be a party that gives people a real choice. Yes of course work with other parties as said, so that in a way is the 'movement' JC and others seek. But 'Independent' alone has drawbacks. Unfortunately the voting masses want to see 'leadership' of a party. Its just the culture of politics, and trying to force change on that is something we just have not time for.
The project is still very much a work in progress so please 'get involved' we all need you.
Thabk you for putting into words some of the questions and feelings (frustrations) I have been pondering over for the past few months. I agree with the assessment that the politics of indipendents risk morphing into the politics of individualism. I do see the value of initiatives like People's Forums and citizens' asssemblies, but I do have questions as to the degree of which the focus on narrowly defined local constituencies helps building power from the bottom up vs disperses the energy that had already been built during campaigns that involved volunteers from all part of the country. The truth is there isn't a scarcity of local campaigns to get involved in (from BDS lobbying of local authorities, to protecting local hospitals/community centres to volunteer in food banks). What we miss is a way to connect these efforts both with each others and with a clear political agenda - something a 'party' would be perfect for. I'm still in touch with the indipendent campaigns I got involved in during the general elections (mainly Jeremy's and Faiza Shaheen's ones) but I am quite perplexed at the rhetorical celebration of 'local' politics as synonym with bottom-up people's power (the two are not the same thing) and the way in which the words 'a new party' have almost become an anathema on the left.
Have your views evolved in more recent months? What's your take on the Novara debates on the topic, more recently with Polanski and James Schneider? Would love to read further from you.
Rubbish.
Corbyn’s been proved right on most issues time and again.